A Challenge to Christians Who Support Same-Sex Marriage- Article by Doug Groothuis

This is a fair challenge I think. The burden of proof lies with the Christian supporter of Same-Sex Marriage as they are resisting millennia of the traditional understanding.  This type of supporter can be identified as either a “liberal Christian” or a “libertarian Christian”. Either way they are most definitely mixing their political views with a skewed biblical understanding.

Here is the article: http://douglasgroothuis.com/2015/06/27/a-challenge-to-christians-who-support-same-sex-marriage/

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4 thoughts on “A Challenge to Christians Who Support Same-Sex Marriage- Article by Doug Groothuis

  1. The Bible clearly condemns homosexual acts. However, some Christians have chosen to just dismiss the verses as mistranslations or outdated.

    On Judgment Day, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords will sit in judgment. There is no presidential veto, senate filibuster, supreme court, federal judge, or civil rights actions that can overrule Jesus. On that day, the Bible will be the criteria to judge all of humanity.

    As for Barak Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Harry Reid, and anyone else who still supports same-sex marriage, they will have to defend it before Him. I pray that they seek forgiveness and repent. There is no second chance on Judgment Day.

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  2. I don’t support same-sex marriage, but I do think there are problems with the challenge. Saying that there needs to be a Biblical case for same-sex marriage automatically implies that we assume our laws should be based on the Bible. We do not live in a theocracy, and I don’t think we want to. Freedom to practice religion means freedom for everyone.

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    • Thanks Kevin! Doug Groothuis’ article is specifically addressing self-identified Christians who support same-sex marriage. Groothuis is assuming that the Bible is normative for Christians regarding all it speaks to both practically (behavior) and in what we should believe. The article is not directly speaking of the legal aspects of the SCOTUS decision that was passed in late June of this year. However, I believe he is writing this article in response to Christians who probably support the SCOTUS decision on the basis of the Bible.

      There are broadly three aspects of the same-sex marriage issue that everyone should have an acquaintance with as this topic is probably the most divisive of our time. 1) Theological , 2) philosophical, and 3) Legal. I am not a theologian, philosopher, or lawyer obviously but that does not mean that i cannot have an opinion on this subject. Although, the way things are going, I might not be able to voice my opinion for too much longer…

      As implied in Groothuis’ challenge, a theological (biblical) basis for approving of same-sex marriage is going to be difficult to do and would involve much eisegesis (reading into the text one’s own biases and presuppositions as opposed to drawing the original meaning out of the text according to context and intent of the author etc…). If you say you are for a traditional and biblical understanding of same-sex behavior then you will agree with his challenge in the theological sense.

      I do not think that his point is that our laws should be based on the Bible. However, a good case can be made for the fact that the Bible and the ten commandments have informed law for cenuries in judeo-christian western societies and thus can arguably be considered at least A basis for our current laws. The “Laws of Nature and Nature’s God” was inserted into the Declaration purposefully by Jefferson. The founders were absolutely influenced by the Bible and I can provide data pertaining to this upon request.

      Regardless of if the US Constitution is based upon the Bible or not, it was understood by the men who wrote it that there are transcendent truths and rights that all men have. We know that our laws and liberty are not based upon secular values. If man can give you rights then man can take them away and that is why our rights come from a higher source. Within the constitution (article I section 8) there are certain enumerated powers that speaks to what the federal government can do. When something is not spoken to directly the supreme court should restrain themselves and allow the democratic process among the people/states (who are sovereign in a constitutional republic).

      As it is, 5 unelected lawyers have, circumvented the democratic and constitutional process in order to make marriage whatever they say it is. Anyone who believes in freedom should be against this. What will they do next I wonder. If your statement above referring to laws not being based upon the Bible is in some way referring to the oft-cited “separation of church and state” I am interested in what your opinion of that is. What do you think of “separation of church and state”? I think this is pertinent to the argument.

      The First Amendment states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…” Unfortunately, more and more people, from shop owners to photographers to name your profession are being told by the government who they have to sell their product or service to regardless of their conscience.

      Any church at any time could have and did perform same-sex weddings before any of the decisions came down. Many states allow for civil unions conferring legal rights to partners in same-sex relationships. Many states viewed same-sex marriages as a viable and legal option with all state rights attached. This is not a civil-rights issue. What do straight people in the U.S. have rights to that Gays do not? Nothing! I cant imagine that african americans view gays as having similar civil rights issues.

      The issue is just the definition of marriage. What is it? Well now it is hard to say what it is. The precedent just set by SCOTUS seems to open the door for any consenting adults/more than two adults who love each other. There is no more essence or nature of marriage anymore it is just something that we as society decide it is and can change it again whenever we want to.

      Our precious liberty as Christians to vote our conscience and what we believe to be moral and right will continually taken away. As a christian i will still vote against the freedom of a woman to kill an unborn child within her even after Roe v. Wade. I will continue to vote for what I see as moral and right based upon the word of God. If you think that this leads to a theocracy, then you overlook the fact that we do have a constitution that would NEVER allow a theocracy that goes against the constitution or subsequent amendments that protect our God given human rights. We have the First Amendment for a reason so that congress can make “no laws” regarding the ESTABLISHMENT of a religion. In europe before the settlers came here, the state was in bed with the church. This should never happen here. This does not mean that we cannot have very religious laws that are passed or that christians or muslims or jews cannot get into politics. Voting for morals is what our founders wanted but I dont think that they imagined it would get to this point.

      My response is disorganized but you can see that I have a lot of thoughts on the subject. I am interested in continuing you further elaborating your opinion if you would.

      Also, please see the below sources that pertain directly to this topic:
      1)Theological
      -http://www.reasonablefaith.org/a-christian-perspective-on-homosexuality
      -www.reasonablefaith.org/christian-homosexuals
      -http://www.robgagnon.net/
      http://www.amazon.com/Homosexuality-Bible-Robert-A-Gagnon/dp/B002SG6HNS (I have read this book about 3 times, it provides two christian responses who interact with each others arguments)
      http://www.reasonablefaith.org/supreme-courts-re-definition-of-marriage#.VZ6OBzvYIgs.twitter

      2) Philosophical
      -http://douglasgroothuis.com/2015/07/20/the-real-slippery-slope-logic-fallacy-and-american-decline/
      -http://douglasgroothuis.com/2015/07/08/should-we-legislate-morality/
      http://douglasgroothuis.com/2015/07/02/the-philosophy-of-gender/
      http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-supreme-court-redefines-marriage-part-1
      http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-supreme-court-redefines-marriage-part-2
      -http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/02/14370/
      -http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/08/15398/
      https://williamjosephsblog.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/william-lane-craig-on-scotus-decision/
      -http://www.str.org/videos/responding-to-same-sex-marriage#.VZ7Xa6b1gxU
      -http://coldcasechristianity.com/2012/same-sex-marriage-human-rights-and-social-justice/
      -http://townhall.com/columnists/mikeadams/2015/08/11/three-kinds-of-christians-n2036904?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&newsletterad=
      -http://prageruniversity.com/Political-Science/Are-You-on-the-Wrong-Side-of-History.html#.VdvuR0X1gxU
      -http://prageruniversity.com/History/Religious-Tolerance-Made-in-America.html#.Vdvvz0X1gxU

      3)Legal
      -http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/09/religious_freedom_risk_three/
      -http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/07/15266/
      -http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/07/15331/
      -http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
      -http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/14-556_3204.pdf (recent court decision and dissenting opinions)
      -http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-307_6j37.pdf (overturning of DOMA last year and dissenting opinions)
      I have started to read the last two but they are extremely long.

      Extra research related to the constitution go to – http://www.heritage.org/constitution

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  3. Kevin:

    In the interest of full disclosure, I am Joe’s proud father. (Proud of him!)

    I like his lengthy probably authoritative arguments given above. Having said that it is important as Americans to understand where our rights come from, the foundation of liberty in general, and really why this country has been so blessed help so many people etc…

    From our declaration (American mission statement and values):
    “…Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness…”

    The Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God is key to all we are who we became. This gives meaning of “self-evident” truths. The founders were very aware of the fallen nature of men as Madison stated: Men are not angels, so we need government. Angels don’t run government, so we need limited government (my paraphrase).

    Separation of church and State is not found in any pertinent founding documents including the Declaration, Constitution and Bill of Rights. Most Supreme court decisions until 1950’s acknowledge the importance, even the essential importance of Biblical literacy, or moral foundation. The founders chose the Bible as the leading most important document encompassing the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God. This phrase was understood at the time to truths evident from the Judeo Christian Scriptures.

    Liberty, the pursuit of Happiness and even life, was never to be a license to do whatever you want. It was a call that government should never oppress confine, control self-governing men. The emphasis is that the power of our government is the consent of the governed – We the PEOPLE…

    The point is we have a self government, by those who are self governed. Without religion, specifically the operating system of boundaries found in the Judeo Christian scriptures, the government fills in the gaps. Does not negate the truth, but vacuums of responsibility and maturity will be filled by a faceless, regulatory bureaucracy without restraint.

    So if you want freedom, liberty, prosperity, the ability to succeed greatly (therefore to fail), these truths need to be taught again, your generation needs to learn history, so it is not repeated again.

    I recommend reading Larry Arnn’s book, The Founder’s Key. It is powerful. as well as his Liberty and Learning.

    God bless you and yours.

    Respectfully: Bill

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